John Lewis - Politician & Civil Rights Activist - Interviewees

JOHN LEWIS

Board Member, SCLC

Interviewed by Trey Ellis

May 18, 2017

Total Running Time: 34 minutes

00:00:00:00

TREY ELLIS:

Thank you so much for having us. Could we talk about- it's a very personal story about King the man and his legacy. Could you talk about when you first met him what your impressions, just walk us through a little bit of that?

00:00:18:00

JOHN LEWIS:

Well, I first heard of Martin Luther King, Jr. in nineteen fifty-five when I was fifteen years old. I grew up only about fifty miles from Montgomery. I had seen the signs that said "White," "Colored," "White Men," "Colored Men," "White Women," "Colored Women," "White Waiting," "Colored Waiting." I heard Doctor King's voice on the old radio. His words inspired me. I heard of Rosa Parks at the same time. The action of Rosa Parks inspired me. I grew up in segregated rural Alabama and I didn't like the signs that I saw saying "White" and "Colored," "White Men," "Colored Men," "White Women," "Colored Women," "White Waiting," "Colored Waiting." The action of Doctor King inspired me to find a way to get in the way. I had been told by my mother, my father, my grandparents and great-grandparents when I would ask questions they would say, "Don't get in trouble. Don't get in the way." But I felt like Martin Luther King, Jr. was speaking directly to me saying, "John Robert Lewis, you too can do something."

00:01:40:00

So, in nineteen fifty-seven, at the age of seventeen, I wrote Doctor Martin Luther King, Jr. a letter. I didn't tell my mother, my father, any of my sisters or brothers or teachers. I wanted to attend a little college ten miles from my home called Troy State College. I applied to go there, submitted my application, my high school transcript. So, I wrote this letter. Doctor King wrote me back and sent me a roundtrip Greyhound Bus ticket and invited me to come to Montgomery to meet with him. So, in September nineteen fifty-seven, I boarded a bus. I traveled from Troy, Alabama, rural Alabama, past Montgomery to Nashville to go to school. An uncle of mine gave me a hundred-dollar bill, more money than I ever had. He gave me a footlocker. I put everything that I owned, my few books, my few clothing in that footlocker and took a Greyhound Bus to Nashville. And while I was there studying, Rosa Parks came to speak at Fisk University and I heard her. I met her.

00:03:01:00

And Doctor King later heard through one of my teachers that I was in Nashville studying, so Martin Luther King, Jr. got back in touch with me and told me when I was home for spring break to come and see him. So, in March of nineteen fifty-eight, by this time I'm eighteen years old, I boarded a bus, I traveled from Troy to Montgomery. And a young lawyer by the name of Fred Gray, who was a layer for Rosa Parks and Doctor King and the people involved in the Montgomery Bus Boycott, met me at the Greyhound Bus station and drove me to the First Baptist Church in downtown Montgomery, pastored by the Reverend Ralph Abernathy, and ushered me into the pastor's study. I saw Martin Luther King, Jr. and Ralph Abernathy standing behind a desk. I was so scared, I didn't know what to say or what to do. And Doctor King said, "Are you the boy from Troy? Are you John Lewis?" And I said, "Doctor King, I am John Robert Lewis," but he still called me the “boy from Troy.” And he said, "You know, if you want to go to Troy State College, we will support you. You may have to sue the state of Alabama. We may have to sue Troy State, but we're prepared to help you. Go back home and have a discussion with your mother, your father. You know, your home could be bombed?" That's what he said. "Your home could be burned. Your family could lose their land. You could be beaten. You could be harmed."

00:04:51:00

And I went back and had a discussion with my mother and my father. They were so afraid that something could happen to me, could happen to them or we could lose the land, lose the farm, so they didn't want to have anything to do with my attempting to enroll at the school and I continued to study in Nashville. And from time to time, Martin Luther King, Jr. would come to Nashville to speak at Fisk University at the City Auditorium, tell the story of the movement. Rosa Parks would come there. I stayed in touch with Doctor King and he became, in a sense, my hero. In a sense he became my big brother. And he would say over and over, "Stay in school, get an education and when you finish school maybe you can come and work with the Southern Christian Leadership Conference," his organization.

00:05:52:00

So, I got involved in the sit-ins, went on the Freedom Rides. And the first time I got arrested I felt free. I felt liberated. I felt like I had crossed over. And then a group of us left Washington, D.C. to go on the Freedom Ride, thirteen of us. We were beaten. We were left bloody at the Greyhound Bus station in Rock Hill, South Carolina and later at the Greyhound Bus station in Montgomery, Alabama. Doctor Martin Luther King, Jr. heard about that we had been beaten in Montgomery. He was on a trip to Chicago with Reverend Ralph Abernathy and he made a decision to return to the South. He flew from Chicago to Atlanta and made a connection on a flight from Atlanta to Montgomery and we met with him the evening of that Saturday.

00:07:02:00

And we started planning a mass meeting at the First Baptist Church, the same church where I first met him. And he said, "We're going to have to this mass meeting. We're going to support you all." By this time there were twenty-nine Freedom Riders that had been beaten and left bloody at the Greyhound Bus station in Montgomery. He said, "We will support you all, all the way." And that night, that Sunday evening, while we were waiting to become part of the rally there was an attempt to bomb the church, to throw stink bombs in the church, to tear gas the church. The church was full to capacity and at one point Doctor King was so concerned he went down into the basement of the church and made a call to Bobby Kennedy and told him that it was a dangerous situation there. If he didn't act, or someone, hundreds or maybe thousands of people could be killed. And President Kennedy and his brother Robert Kennedy, the Attorney General, responded and placed the city of Montgomery under martial law.

00:08:24:00

TREY ELLIS:

I'd like to jump ahead. You talked about Riverside Church. You were at the- we talked about the decision to, his decision and his struggle to come out against the war and your part in that, what you know about that and what it was like to hear that speech at Riverside.

00:08:41:00

JOHN LEWIS:

The night of April fourth, nineteen sixty-seven I believe that Martin Luther King, Jr. delivered probably one of the best, the most powerful speeches I ever heard him deliver. I've heard many sermons, many speeches along the way. I was at the March on Washington, the youngest speaker, and out of the ten people that spoke that day I’m the only one still around. But I think the speech at Riverside Church was his best. He literally preached. There was hundreds of ministers, religious leaders, nuns, rabbis and just plain everyday people. He said, in effect, that he was not going to butcher his conscience. He said as a nation we talk about nonviolence here in America and then we engage in violence abroad in Vietnam. He said, in effect, that the bombs that we're dropping in Vietnam, they will be shattered over America. He felt good. He knew he was getting over. He literally poured out his heart, the depth and essence of his soul. He felt very strongly. Doctor King believed in the way of peace, the way of love. He believed in the discipline and the philosophy of nonviolence.

00:10:34:00

TREY ELLIS:

I was going to jump to the assassination. You were working with ... Were you with Bobby Kennedy then?

00:10:40:00

JOHN LEWIS:

In nineteen sixty-eight, I was in Indianapolis, Indiana organizing for Bobby Kennedy. And a group of us were planning a rally in a transition neighborhood, this outdoor rally. And there was some debate about whether Bobby Kennedy should come and speak. Some of us had heard that Doctor King had been shot, but we didn't know his condition. And I, for one, kept insisting that Bobby Kennedy had to come and speak to the crowd that were waiting, and he did come and speak. It was Robert Kennedy who announced that evening on April fourth, nineteen sixty-eight that he had some bad news. He said, in effect, that Martin Luther King, Jr. was assassinated and a hush came over the crowd. Some people cried. And I said to myself, "Well, we still have Bobby." And I started crying a little and a little more, ‘cause if it hadn't been for Martin Luther King, Jr. I don't know what would have happened to me growing up very, very poor in rural Alabama.

00:12:13:00

Doctor King had provided a light for some of us, provided hope for some of us. He was the embodiment of our future. Bobby Kennedy suggested that a young man by the name of Earl Graves, who was on his staff, and myself to take a flight to Atlanta and help in preparation for the funeral. I will never forget going back to Atlanta and visiting Ebenezer Baptist Church that he co-pastored with his father. In the evening before the funeral, Bobby Kennedy and other members of the Kennedy family wanted to go down to the church and it was my responsibility to lead them through the educational building, down the flight of stairs to view the body of Doctor King. That was a sad and dark time in the history of the struggle for civil rights and for America and for people around the world. ‘cause as Nina Simone said in one of her songs, “the king of love is dead.”

00:13:52:00

TREY ELLIS:

How did it personally effect Bobby Kennedy when he heard the news?

00:13:57:00

JOHN LEWIS:

When Bobby Kennedy heard that Doctor King had been assassinated, he was shaken. He invited us that evening to come to his room at a hotel in Indianapolis. We- some of us sat on the floor, others on his bed and we all mourned and cried together. Even ... He was shaken, visibly shaken by it all. I think he admired Doctor King. I knew that his brother, President Kennedy, admired Doctor King. They probably had some differences, but I remember the day of the march, the day of the march when President Kennedy invited all of us, all of the speakers, down to the White House, and he stood in the door of the Oval Office greeting each one of us saying, "You did a good job." He was beaming like a proud father. He got to Doctor King, he said, "You did a good job and you had a dream." That was my last time seeing President Kennedy. So, I felt that when President Kennedy was assassinated and later Doctor King, and Bobby Kennedy two months after Doctor King, that something died in all of us, something died in America. Some of that sense of hope and faith died.

00:15:40:00

TREY ELLIS:

And afterwards, with the idea of the Poor People's March- Let's go back a little bit, go back to the idea ... Marian Wright Edelman was telling us that it was Bobby Kennedy saying, "King, you need this march. Bring the poor to Washington." Were you part of any of those discussions?

00:15:59:00

JOHN LEWIS:

I remember very well being at one of the meetings discussing the Poor People's Campaign. At this time, I was serving on the board of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference. We met at Paschal's in Atlanta where Doctor King brought a group representing those that had been left out and left behind. There were low income whites, low income African Americans, Latinos and Asian-Americans and Native Americans all meeting together preparing to take their issues, their concerns and the needs of poor people to Washington to camp out. People were ready. People were prepared to go and stay awhile.

00:16:56:00

And at the same time, there was a struggle going on in Memphis. Doctor King hadn't planned to go to Memphis, but a young man by the name of Jim Lawson, who became our teacher during the preparation for the sit-ins and the Freedom Rides, Jim Lawson was one of these brilliant young Methodist ministers who had studied the philosophy and the discipline of nonviolence. Doctor King used to come to Nashville and speak. He had so much love and admiration for Jim Lawson. This young guy was just smart. He had studied Gandhi. He had studied Thoreau and civil disobedience. He prepared us. So, when Doctor King would come in and salute the Nashville movement, he would say Jim Lawson had a greater understanding of the philosophy and the discipline of nonviolence than anyone he knew.

00:18:03:00

TREY ELLIS:

In terms of talking about Bobby Kennedy, when you were there, did you have any- We talked about, you know, now we know so much about Hoover and the wiretaps. Did you have any idea that Bobby Kennedy, as Attorney General, had to have signed off on them? Did you have any feeling of that?

00:18:22:00

JOHN LEWIS:

At the time of J. Edgar Hoover made the request to wiretap Doctor King, I hadn't heard anything about it. I didn't know anything about it until much, much later. You know, during those days we assumed that we all were being wiretapped or spied on or somebody, the federal government, local, states, city, that we all- I remember once in Montgomery talking on a pay telephone, and I hung up the telephone and picked it back up, I heard part of my conversation. So, we all just assumed somehow and someway there was somebody watching, somebody listening. But you couldn't- none of us lived in fear. You couldn't become immobilized by what others was doing or saying. We felt we had a job to do. We were part of a movement and we would not let any person or any group stop us.

00:19:58:00

TREY ELLIS:

And once you found out later and what we know now about Hoover releasing the tapes and this, sort of, this vicious campaign against King even up to even later to fighting against the holiday in his name, what do you say of the detractors of King that try to use the evidence in those tapes or the voice in those tapes to sort of negate his message?

00:20:20:00

JOHN LEWIS:

Well, I think the people who made the tapes, made the recording, and sent them out to reporters, to newspaper editors, are really sick. I think J. Edgar Hoover hated, despised Doctor King. He tried to suggest that the movement was communistic inspired, but we didn't need anyone from Moscow or any other place to tell us that segregation and racial discrimination were bad. We didn't need anyone to tell us that we were being discriminated against. We didn't need any foreign power, any outside force to tell us that people of color could not register to vote simply because of the color of their skin. We didn't need anyone inside of the federal government or outside to tell us that people were forced to count the number of bubbles in a bar of soap, the number of jellybeans in a jar. The black lawyers and doctors, college professors were being told they could not read or write well enough.

00:21:42:00

TREY ELLIS:

After the assassination and the sort of, the violence that broke out across the country, how did you feel about that as a practitioner of nonviolence? And h ow did that affect you? Because already in the movement between, you know, between SCLC and SNCC and this idea of questioning nonviolence the riots were sort of a flashpoint.

00:22:10:00

JOHN LEWIS:

Doctor Martin Luther King, Jr. would say that the riots became the language of the unheard and somehow, he would say, we have to give people some victory. We have to give people a sense of hope. I never liked violence. Doctor King didn't like violence. I think we grew to accept the way of peace, accept the philosophy of nonviolence as a way of living, as a way of life. It said, in effect, you may beat me, you may throw me in jail, you may even kill me, but I'm going to adhere to the philosophy and the discipline of nonviolence. And many of the young people, many of the students that came out of the movement, young people, lived that way. They were willing to put their bodies on the line.

00:23:24:00

TREY ELLIS:

How did you ... You were young and people your same age, the other black activists, were turning their back on nonviolence. Was it hard for you to stay with it?

00:23:36:00

JOHN LEWIS:

It was not hard. It was not difficult for me to stay with the philosophy of nonviolence. It became part of my DNA. During that period of the early sixties, mid-sixties, I was arrested, jailed, beaten, left bloody, unconscious. I almost died on that bridge. I had a concussion. I was arrested forty times during the sixties, and since I've been in Congress, another five times, and I'm probably going to get arrested again for something. My philosophy, a philosophy that Doctor King shared, when you see something that is not right, not fair, not just, you have a moral obligation, a mission, and a mandate to do something, to say something, to speak up, to speak out and find a way to get in the way of what I call “good trouble” or “necessary trouble.”

00:24:43:00

TREY ELLIS:

As Black Power rose, Martin Luther King understood that it was, as a term or as a method, it was problematic. Did you ... And he also talked of himself as not just a black leader, but sort of expanding the movement. As the movement started to change, what were those kind of discussions like with you and him? How did you struggle?

00:25:07:00

JOHN LEWIS:

Well, I never really had a long-term discussion with Doctor King about the concept or the idea or the philosophy of Black Power. I remember how the term emerged. I was here in Washington, D.C. It was during the Howard University graduation, and I believe Adam Clayton Powell had spoken and he used the phrase "audacious black power" and he used "black power" or "blackness" two or three times in this speech. And Stokely Carmichael shared it with me and I think that rang a bell for him and then he started using the phrase. But in the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, we seldom ever used slogan or rhetoric. We believed in programs, the one-two-threes, the ABCs of doing this or doing that. So I never really used it.

00:26:26:00

TREY ELLIS:

Can we talk about ... You've had this commitment to nonviolence to this day and so I'd like to talk about how did nonviolence ... Is nonviolence still a tactic to this day? You've personally, you’ve talked about how you've used it recently.

00:26:41:00

JOHN LEWIS:

Well, nonviolence, the philosophy is more than a tactic for me. It is one of those immutable principles that you cannot deviate from. It got to be part of your whole being. You come to that point where you respect the dignity and the worth of every human being. And you cannot give up on it if you're going to create what Doctor King called the “beloved community,” if you're going to be able to redeem the soul of America you cannot and must not give up on this concept, this belief, this way of life. ‘Cause as A. Philip Randolph indicated to many of us, this unbelievable man who was the dean of black leadership during the sixties, who had this whole idea of a March on Washington during the days of Roosevelt, the days of Truman, and it all came together during the days of Kennedy. And somebody who was meeting Mr. Randolph would say over and over again, maybe our foremothers and our forefathers all came to this great land in different ships, but we're all in the same boat now. Doctor King put it another way. We must learn to live together as brothers and sisters. If not, we will perish as fools. And Doctor King probably would say something like this today: it doesn't matter whether we're black or white, Latino, Asian-American, or Native American, we're one people, we're one family, we all live in the same house, not just an American house, but the world house.

00:28:35:00

TREY ELLIS:

I was going to ask you, there's a white backlash, in terms of- as the movement moved into Chicago, then there's this white backlash. Do you feel that we're in a period of white backlash now? Is it cyclical?

00:28:52:00

JOHN LEWIS:

There's something happening in America today, but I wouldn't necessarily call it “white backlash.” I think there is a philosophy or ideology that is moving around. There are forces in America today want to build walls, but there are other forces that want to build bridges. We're brothers and sisters. We all have to learn to live together on this little piece of real estate we call America or on this planet. And that must be the lesson not just for us, the adults, but for our children and unborn generations. If we can get it right here in America, just maybe we can serve as a model for the rest of the world.

00:29:56:00

During the height of the movement it was not just a black movement. There were hundreds and thousands of white Americans, many Asian Americans, Native Americans and Latinos participating. There were white people beaten and left bloody during the Freedom Rides in nineteen sixty-one. There were white people and others beaten Selma and murdered. When we were jailed in Mississippi during the Freedom Rides, more than four hundred of us, the majority were white men and women from all across America. And when we had the Mississippi Freedom Summer, the majority of the volunteers ... And I will never, ever forget during the summer of nineteen sixty-four, Freedom Summer three young men, Andy Goodman, Mickey Schwerner from New York City, white and James Chaney from Mississippi, went out to investigate the burning of an African American church to be used for voter registration workshops. They were stopped by the sheriff, arrested, detained, turned over to members of the Klan where they were beaten and later shot, murdered. These three young men died together.

00:31:39:00

TREY ELLIS:

So, going back to King, just a personal memory, something about King's legacy, how it lives in you today and also a personal memory, something that makes you smile, something that's not political, just like a personal touch that really people don't know about King.

00:31:56:00

JOHN LEWIS:

Well, I remember one occasion, on one occasion, he knew I wanted to be a minister, he knew I wanted to preach the gospel. When I was a little boy growing up on a farm we used to raise chickens and I would get all of our chickens together in the chicken yard and my brothers and sisters and cousins would line the outside of the chicken yard and I would start preaching to these chickens. And se would ask me from time to time, "John, do you still preach?" And I would say something like, "Yes, Doctor King, when I'm taking a shower." And he thought it was funny and he just started laughing. But I remember on one occasion we were driving or riding in Mississippi and he saw some hole in the wall restaurant and he said we should stop and get something to eat. If we get arrested and go to jail, at least we go on a full stomach. It was just a hole in the wall and none of us wanted to stop, none of us wanted to go there and try to get something to eat, and he’d just laugh about it, but we didn't think it was that funny.

00:33:04:00

TREY ELLIS:

Did you get the food?

JOHN LEWIS:

No.

TREY ELLIS:

Great. Is there any misconception about King's legacy that you'd like to clear up?

00:33:17:00

JOHN LEWIS:

Well, Doctor King was consistent. He was determined. He was a wonderful, wonderful unbelievable human being. I think if people got to know him, they would have loved to have had him as an uncle, a big brother. He was just a wonderful, nice, loving human being. I remember so well when I left the jail in, well, the state penitentiary in Parchman, where over four hundred of us went in nineteen sixty-one, and I wanted to return to school. And he said, "John, do you have the money to go back to school?" And I said, “No.” He said, "I will help you get a scholarship," and he did. And that was very kind of him. When we were talking from Selma to Montgomery, after we had been beaten and left bloody, we were walking one day and it had been raining, the sun came out, he was wearing a little cap on his head. He took the cap off of his head. He said, "You've been hurt. You need to protect your head," and placed the cap on my head. That was very kind and thoughtful of him and I cannot forget that.

00:34:52:00 END OF INTERVIEW

JOHNN LEWIS INTERVIEW

TRUE JUSTICE: BRYAN STEVENSON’S FIGHT FOR EQUALITY

KUNHARDT FILM FOUNDATION

JOHN LEWIS

U.S. Representative, Georgia

October 04, 2018

Interviewed by Teddy Kunhardt

Total Running Time: 10 Minutes

START TC: 01:00:00:00

01:00:16:19

TEDDY KUNHARDT:

Thank you so much for sitting with us. It’s an honor.

01:00:19:18

JOHN LEWIS:

You’re more than welcome. No, thank you.

01:00:22:02

TEDDY KUNHARDT:

So a lot of people who are going to be watching our film on Bryan Stevenson don’t know who Bryan is. I’m hoping you can tell me who is Bryan Stevenson and why is he so important for this country?

01:00:34:11

JOHN LEWIS:

Bryan Stevenson is one of a kind. This young man probably should be looked up on as maybe one of the founding fathers of the new America. He’s one of commitment, dedication, brave, courageous, and bold. For someone to have grew up like he grew up, get a great education: as a lawyer to come and cast his lot with the people that are suffering, people who may face the gas chamber and to go and live in Alabama and do what he has done and accomplish so much—he’s not known all over America and around the world because he has the capacity and the ability to see a need and try to meet this need.

01:01:45:10

JOHN LEWIS:

He—he’s saving lives. He’s trying to rescue people. Poor, many of the people he’s trying to help out or save receive very little education and unfortunately maybe some didn’t have good leaders. Yep. And Bryan and his fellow lawyers have been able to come to their rescue.

01:02:18:21

TEDDY KUNHARDT:

He is amazing, Bryan Stevenson. I mean I really think he is a mix of King and Thurgood Marshall. I mean he—he’s got the law and the spirit.

01:02:28:21

JOHN LEWIS:

Right—that’s a good way to describe him, through law and the spirit.

01:02:46:19

TEDDY KUNHARDT:

I’ll set you up. We were just talking about Bryan’s mix of spirit and law.

01:02:54:18

JOHN LEWIS:

You’re so right. Bryan is a mix of the spirit and the law. Sometimes he can come across when he really gets all wind up as a minister preaching the gospel of hope, the gospel of saving human kind, especially people who are facing unbelievable hardship without money, without a lawyer. So many of the people that he’s trying to help are really almost on their own. I admire Bryan. I admire this young man. He’s gifted, talented, brave, courageous, bold. He’s one of the few people that have emerged during the past few years.

01:04:03:05

TEDDY KUNHARDT:

So, one thing Bryan’s also trying to do is change the narrative of racism in America. He’s trying to eradicate racism in America and in order to do that, he’s saying that the country must address racism head on. And he says that if we do it—if we face it head on, we will achieve reconciliation. Can you explain what he means and the importance of this. And what I’m getting at is you are the living embodiment of changing the narrative of racism in America when one example we’re using in the film is when the police officer in Selma apologizes to you.

01:04:42:03

JOHN LEWIS:

Well Bryan believe in we can be better, that we can be a little more human. I’ve heard him speak on so many occasions talk and when he been honored, the way he responds. He believes deeply in his heart and his soul that we must eradicate racism, that we must create what Dr. King called the beloved community, that we must have the power and the capacity to redeem the soul of America. And he’s living that—he is the essence of it. He is the embodiment with the ability, the capacity to move closer to ending racism, as we knew it, in America and create one family. He just (Inaudible) talk about it but he lives it. He’s an embodiment of yes, that we have to do it and we must not be afraid to lay down the burden of racism and create one America. One family, one house. He would say we all live in the same house, the American house, the world house.

01:06:03:02

TEDDY KUNHARDT:

Bryan has said that the prisoners he represents are broken, but after decades of work, he is quote, “broken, too.” And I’m having a hard time understanding what he means by that because he seems to have everything. You know, he’s got the education. He’s got a job he loves. What does he mean by he’s broken too or what do you think he means?

01:06:28:10

JOHN LEWIS:

I believe what he is saying to America and to the world that we all are broken, ‘cause when you see fellow human beings down and out, broken spirit, somehow and someway you have to walk in their shoes, you have to become them. And you deal with yourself and with other selves, you become brothers and sisters, you become a family. So he’s saying in effect as long as one segment of the world family is in trouble, we’re all in trouble.

01:07:16:08

TEDDY KUNHARDT:

Bryan’s work at EJI, the Equal Justice Initiative is trying to change the narrative of racism in this country. He’s asking for big change. But what can we do on an individual level? What can I do to help make that change? What can we all do?

01:07:33:05

JOHN LEWIS:

We all can help: we all can make a contribution by living what Bryan is talking about. Living that change, becoming part of that effort to change. Become the embodiment of change. When we see something that is not right, not fair, not just, we have to say something. We have to do something. We cannot afford to be quiet. We have to speak up and speak out and get in what I call good trouble, necessary trouble.

01:08:08:23

TEDDY KUNHARDT:

And what do you think lies in the future for Bryan Stevenson?

01:08:15:00

JOHN LEWIS:

Well I’ll tell you one thing. I truly believe that Bryan can write his own ticket, but I think he’s so committed, and so dedicated to his mission, maybe just maybe he didn’t want to write another ticket. Maybe he sees this as his lifelong calling, his mission. Yes, to eradicate racism, to be prepared in willingness to walk in other people’s shoes. And I think that’s what he’s doing. He can be a strong and mighty light for a generation yet unborn. He can teach our children the way to live, the way to make a contribution.

01:09:05:21

TEDDY KUNHARDT:

And you think he would make a good Supreme Court justice?

01:09:08:17

JOHN LEWIS:

Oh, I think he would be a wonderful member of the United States Supreme Court. I would love to see him. If I was in the position to appoint him or recommend him, I would do it. He would be brilliant on the Supreme Court as a member fighting for all humankind. And for him, it doesn’t matter whether you’re black or white, Latino or Asian American, Native American, straight or gay. He would say that we’re one people, we’re one family. We must learn to live together. If not, we will do as Dr. King suggested, we’ll perish together.

01:09:50:15

TEDDY KUNHARDT:

My one last question on Bryan is, you knew Dr. King intimately, do you see any similarities between the two?

01:09:57:15

JOHN LEWIS:

Oh I see a great deal of similarity between Dr. King and Bryan Stevenson. They just go about their business of doing their work without a great deal of fanfare. Know in the last days, Dr. King, he delivered a sermon saying he wanted to be a drum major for justice. And I think that’s what Bryan is all about, being a drum major for justice for what is right and fair.

01:10:32:11

TEDDY KUNHARDT:

That’s great. Yeah, I remember one of the lines in King, it said, “He was the quietest person in the room yet he held all the power.”

01:10:39:11

JOHN LEWIS:

Yes.

01:10:39:22

TEDDY KUNHARDT:

And that reminds me of Bryan because he’s so quiet but when you speak— when he speaks, you’re just glued.

01:10:45:18

JOHN LEWIS:

Yes.

END TC: 01:10:47:02

JOHN LEWIS INTERVIEW

THE SOUL OF AMERICA

KUNHARDT FILM FOUNDATION

John Lewis

Congressman and Civil Rights Activist

September 24, 2019

Interviewed by Katie Davison

Total Running Time: 34 minutes

START TC: 01:00:00:00

Standing up against segregation in the 1960s

01:00:06:03

JOHN LEWIS:

During the 60s we saw segregation. We felt the stain of segregation and racial discrimination. We had to change it. People lived in fear that if they desegregated their lunch counters or their restaurants or their theaters, they would lose business. But it became a moral issue. When young blacks and young whites came together and were saying like, "No more segregation, no more segregation, no more racial discrimination." When people were willing to study the way of peace, the way of love, study the philosophy and the discipline of nonviolence, and they said, in effect, "We will not go back, we will not be turned around, we will go forward," it became a moral issue. We were saying we are one people, we are one family, we all live in the same house, the American house, the world house. And as Martin Luther King Jr. said over and over again, and we were deeply influenced by Dr. King and a young man named James Lawson, that we had a moral obligation to say something, to do something, to speak up and speak out. We may get arrested, we may be thrown in jail, we may be beaten, left bloody, or left for dead, but we couldn't stop. And it became a way of life for many young people. The first time I got arrested demonstrating, speaking up and speaking out against segregation and racial discrimination, I felt free. I felt liberated. I felt like I had crossed over. And it made me a stronger and better person. At one time in Washington, D.C., a few years ago, black people and white people couldn't be seated together on a bus leaving the nation's capital to travel through the South. We changed that. And we were beaten along the way, we were arrested, we were jailed, but we kept the faith. We kept our eyes on the prize. And we were saying, in effect, there would be no turning back.

Everyone can learn and find a way to stand up against injustice

01:02:59:06

JOHN LEWIS:

We all can study. We all can be trained to find our way or get in the way. And sometimes I feel there's a force that comes through us, saying, "You have to stand up. You have to speak up. You have to speak out." And when you see something that is not right, not fair, not just, you have to do something. And the teaching of individuals like Jim Lawson, or the words that you read of Gandhi, or the speeches of Dr. King and others that come along, they lift us, they move us and they tell us over and over again if another person can do just that, if another generation can get in the way or get what I call good trouble, necessary trouble, I, too, can do something. I too can get in trouble for the greater good.

Meeting Reverend James Lawson

01:04:16:05

JOHN LEWIS:

I met Reverend Lawson, this smart, gifted man, in about 1958 or '59. He was in Nashville representing not just the Fellowship of Reconciliation, but representing the religious community. Jim was born and grew up in Ohio, came South, almost like a missionary, almost like a nonviolent teacher, a warrior, to spread the good news. He was speaking at a little church in Nashville and he announced during his speech there would be nonviolent workshops that he would be conducting, and I attended one of those workshops. It changed my life forever, set me on a path, committed to the way of peace, to the way of love, and I have not looked back since.

Nonviolence workshops

01:05:31:09

JOHN LEWIS:

In those workshops that Jim Lawson conducted, we studied the way of peace, the way of love. We studied the teaching of Gandhi. We studied what Martin Luther King Jr. was all about. We studied the whole idea of passive resistance. We studied the way to love—that if someone beat you, or spit on you, or pour hot water or hot coffee on you, you look straight ahead and never ever dreaming of hitting that person back or being violent toward that person. And we accepted it, most of us accepted it as a way of life, as a way of living. Made us much better human beings. We had what we called role-playing, or what some people would call social drama. Someone pretending that they were beating you or hitting you. And there were young people that didn't smoke, but they would put a cigarette or something and smoke and then blow smoke in the faces of, in the eyes of some of those people, preparing them for whatever could happen or might happen. It was a way we had been trained, that you absorb the hitting, the beating, but you don't come out of what happened being bitter or hostile or hating or not loving that person. You see the individual as your friend, as your sister, as your brother. And we've heard individuals like Jim Lawson and Martin Luther King Jr. say it over and over again, hate is too heavy a burden to bear. If you start hating people you have to decide who you going to hate tomorrow, who you going to hate next week? Just love everybody. And on one occasion I heard Dr. King say, "Just love the hell out of everybody, it's the better way. It's the best way." Along the way I had what I call an executive session with myself. I said, ‘I'm not going to hate. I'm not going to become bitter. I'm not going to live a hostile life. I'm going to treat my fellow human being as a human being.’ So, when I was being beaten on the freedom rides or in a march, I never hated. I respected the dignity and the worth of that person. Because we all are human and we must be human toward each other and love each other.

Respecting the dignity of all people

01:09:06:15

JOHN LEWIS:

You would, as a person, see one hitting you or feeling the blows, and you have what I called an executive session with yourself. And you said to yourself. You say to yourself, "This cannot be for real. This person doesn't understand." Now, when I was growing up as a child, I fell in love with raising chickens and I think important saw some of these individuals in chickens—that they had to be treated in a special way. People don't come into this world hating people and putting people down because of their race or their color or their religion. People are taught to put others down, are taught to either like certain people or to hate certain people. And I felt, as Jim Lawson had taught us, to be kind, be forgiving, and love and respect the dignity of your fellow human being.

The movement showed political leadership and the American public the urgency for civil rights

01:10:37:02

JOHN LEWIS:

The forces of the civil rights movement had sensitized and educated a nation, even the President of the United States. No president or governor could see what was happening and see how people were being treated and continue to look the other way. I remember President Kennedy, along with his brother, the Attorney General Robert Kennedy, saying to us on one occasion, "We now understand." That was the power of the way of peace, the way of love, the power, the forces of nonviolence to say to elected officials, to say to the larger American community, we can change. We can help create what Dr. King and Jim Lawson called the beloved community. We can help redeem the soul of America and lift America, lift our country, lift our people to higher heights. And that's what the movement did. That's what Jim Lawson and others have accomplished.

1963: The Children’s Crusade and the 16th Street Baptist Church bombing

01:12:05:19

JOHN LEWIS:

I worked with James Bevel as part of the Nashville student movement and later he became a part of Dr. King's organization in working in Birmingham. The Birmingham movement was a mighty movement. It was a unique effort. It was the ministers, the more professional groups, women. But the moment they got the little children, these little kids, these little children involved, teaching them the way of peace, the way of love, the philosophy of nonviolence, and they start leaving school, slipping out of homes and schools to go and participate in a march. And the mistake that the local officials made, the Police Commissioner Bull O'Connor, was to use the fire department to turn fire hoses on little children, to have dogs snapping the children. It sort of stirred up everything in the African-American community, but a large segment of the white community—not only in Birmingham, but around the nation. You had to be moved. You couldn't stay silent. It was a test for the philosophy and the discipline of nonviolence. To watch television and see Bull O'Connor use fire hoses to pick little kids up, knock them up against trees. And you saw young children and young adults trying to hold onto trees, to not be knocked down. Now, the city of Birmingham was referred to or called by people in the movement Bombingham.

01:14:26:01

There'd been so many bombings of homes, of churches. And they came on a Sunday morning in 1963, eighteen days after the March on Washington, that a church was bombed where four little girls was killed right after Sunday school. It was a sad and dark hour. I was home in Alabama, visiting myself family, and I got a call to say, "You must go to Birmingham." I took a bus ride alone. An uncle of mine thought it was too dangerous for me to travel by myself, so he made a decision to have me to go a distance away from my home and board a bus so maybe people wouldn't recognize me getting on this bus to travel to Birmingham. And it was in Birmingham that I reconnected with a friend and a colleague of mine named Junior Bond. And we stood in front of the church. It was so sad and so dark. And each time I go back there I would never forget the moment that I stood in front of that church. Never forget attending the funeral of these four little girls. But you cannot stop because of the possibility of violent and someone being hurt or killed. You have to keep going to help redeem the soul of America.

What led to the passage of the Civil Rights Act and the march from Selma to Montgomery

01:16:14:15

JOHN LEWIS:

I think all of those events, the bombings, the beatings, the arrests and jailing during the freedom rides, and the March on Washington, all led to the passing of a Civil Rights Act. Some people said, "Wait. We cannot get it done," but we got it done. We got the Civil Rights Act of 1964 passed and signed into law by President Johnson. President Johnson picked up where President Kennedy had left off. And we told President Johnson that we needed a Voting Rights Act and he said, "I've just signed a Civil Rights Act." He said, "But if you want it, make me do it. Make me do it." And we decided to go to Selma, Alabama, where we had been working for several years and go to other parts of the South. In Selma, Alabama, in 1963, '64 and '65, only 2.1% of blacks of voting age were registered to vote. Black people were asked from time to time to count the number of bubbles in a bar of soap, to count the number of jelly beans in a jar. People stood in what I called unmovable lines and we had to change it. So, after a young African-American man had been shot, and later he died, in Selma. He came from the hometown of Mrs. Martin Luther King Jr., Mrs. Andrew Young and Mrs. Ralph Abernathy. And when you're passing Selma, we came together and said we would march from Selma to Montgomery in an orderly, peaceful, nonviolent fashion.

01:18:27:17

And so on Sunday March 7th 1965, about 600 of us gathered at a little church. We had a prayer in the church. We had a prayer when we got outside of the church. There was only one person standing—that was Andrew Young, who was on Dr. King's staff—he was standing with his hand up, the rest of us on our knees saying a prayer. And when we finished praying we lined up in twos and started walking in an orderly, peaceful, nonviolent fashion. No one saying a word. As we got to the edge of the bridge, crossing the Alabama River, Hosea Williams from Dr. King's organization said to me, "John, can you swim?" I said, "No. What about you, Hosea?" He said, "A little." I said, "Well, there's a lot of water down there. We cannot jump. We're going for forward.” So, we kept walking. I had a backpack on, before it became fashionable to wear backpacks. So, in this backpack I wanted to be prepared if we got arrested and go to jail. I wanted to have something to eat. I had one apple and one orange. I wanted to be able to brush my teeth so I had a toothbrush and toothpaste.

01:20:17:13

And as we walked closer and closer, getting ready to cross the Edmund Pettus Bridge, a man identified himself and said, "I'm Major John Cloud of the Alabama State Troopers. This is an unlawful march. You will not be allowed to continue. I give you three minutes to disperse and return to your homes or to your church." And Hosea Williams said, "Major, give us a moment to kneel and pray." And again, he said, "Troopers advance." I said, "Major, may I have a word?" He said, "There will be no word," and he said, "Troopers advance again.” You saw these men, all white men, you didn't have any African-American state troopers on the force. You saw these men putting on their gas masks. They came toward us and Hosea Williams said, "John, they're going to gas us." They came with all type of force, beating us with nightsticks, trampling us with horses. I was the first person to be hit. My feet, my legs went from under me. I was knocked down. I thought I was going to die. I thought I saw death. And I said to myself, "I'm going to die on this bridge." But I didn't want to die, I wanted to live. And somehow, and some way, I lived. And apparently a group of young men carried me back across the bridge to the streets of Selma, back to the little church that we had left from. There was hundreds and thousands of people on that side trying to get in, but the church was too small. They asked me to say something and I remember saying, "I don't understand it, how President Johnson can send troops to Vietnam and cannot send troops to Selma to protect people who desire to register to vote." The next thing I knew I'd been taken to a little hospital to be treated by a group of nuns.

Lyndon B. Johnson speaking up for Civil Rights

01:23:07:16

JOHN LEWIS:

Lyndon Johnson was a strong, strong leader. He'd been a leader in the Senate, and when he became Vice President he continued to lead. He made a commitment to those of us in the Civil Rights Movement, and to people around the nation, that he would pick up where President Kennedy left off. And he did, he spoke up for civil rights. He was not ready for another major piece of legislation dealing with civil rights or voting rights to be put on his desk, but he didn't have a choice after Selma. The Congress and American people demanded action and he took action. And when that bill came to his desk after Selma, he responded. He was the first American president to use the theme song of the Civil Rights Movement when he spoke to the nation and he said, "And we shall overcome." I was sitting next to Dr. Martin Luther King Junior in a home in Selma and when he said, "We shall overcome," I looked at Dr. King and tears came down his face and we all cried a little. The President of the United States saying that we shall overcome. We knew it was over. We knew we would get a voting rights bill through the Congress. And later he called out the National Guard, called on the United States military to protect us on the 50 miles walk from Selma to Montgomery.

Lyndon B. Johnson trying to persuade Gov. George Wallace to do the right thing

01:25:10:02

JOHN LEWIS:

There was a meeting that President Johnson had with Wallace. I cannot use some of the words that Lyndon Johnson used, but he said to him in effect, ‘We two can make history, but we are going a different direction.’ And he said in effect, ‘George Wallace, you listen to me. You can emerge as a leader, or you can be just a footnote in history.’

Meeting with Lyndon B. Johnson before the signing of the Voting Rights Act

01:25:53:10

JOHN LEWIS:

Early during the morning of March 6th 1965, and I don't know why he did it, he invited only two of us to meet with him. James Farmer of course, who was committed to the way of peace, to the way of love, committed to the philosophy and the discipline of nonviolence, and myself, and we were able to bring an aid with us. We didn't meet in the Oval Office. We met in a little side room and President Johnson just laid back while he talked with us and we listened to him. He said, "I'm going to sign this act." But he said something like this, he said, ‘You got to go back and get people registered and turn out to vote. You have to get them by the balls.’ He said something else and I won't, cannot, say it for the camera, I think. But he said, ‘You've got to get them by the balls like a bull that's getting on a cow, and get them registered to vote.’ He was plain and open. And later he had the ceremony for the signing of the bill and he gave several of us one of the pens that he used to sign the Voting Rights Act. I knew then it was going to be a different day, because back in 1957 Dr. King had spoken, so many times he would say, "Give us the ballot, give us the ballot and we will do such a thing, give us the ballot." So, we were getting the ballot. All across the South black men and women could now participate in the democratic process. So, that changed everything forever.

How the Civil Rights Movement changed after Selma

01:28:02:14

JOHN LEWIS:

I think there were people who thought that we had made it, that we had completed the struggle, that the journey was over, and people went in different direction. Selma was the beginning of a new beginning. There was this stress on race and color. There were some people saying that the movement should be just a movement of color and that white people should go and work in their own community. I, along with many of the young people in the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee and Dr. King's organizations, said, we must work together. We've come this far together, we must stay together in an integrated fashion. And later the next year I was de-elected as the head of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee and another person was elected by the name of Stokely Carmichael. And I made a decision to leave. So, I left this part of the organization and got an offer to work in New York City, and I went there and lived for a year. But almost every two or three weekends I would go back to Georgia and I kept in contact. Junior Bond, my friend, kept me informed.

Divisive forces in America today

01:29:46:23

JOHN LEWIS:

Well, I think there are forces today in America trying to divide people along racial lines. There are forces today that are still preaching hate and division and it make me sad. When you see something like what happened in Charlottesville, Virginia. I thought we had come so far and made so much progress, but it took us back to another time and another period. We don't want to go back, we want to go forward and create one community, one America. There's so many forces today that are preaching hate and division. We cannot allow that to happen.

Never give up on each other

01:30:38:10

JOHN LEWIS:

There is a great need to believe in something, to have faith, to respect the dignity and the worth of every human being. We were taught during the movement to never, ever give up on your fellow human being. I've seen unbelievable changes, especially in the heart of the Deep South. People are saying things and doing things they probably never really dreamed of. Black people and white people and others are working and pulling together. To get to know George Wallace's daughter has been a blessing for me and maybe a blessing for her. This young woman can teach America a lesson, can teach the world a lesson. The past few weeks, months, year, she been out there pushing and pulling. She was a strong supporter of President Obama. And she tells stories about what her father did and didn't do. And she said in effect from time to time, ‘He never talked with me about what he did or what he was doing.’ He owed it to her. She can be an ambassador for goodwill for America, an ambassador of love, an ambassador of bringing people together. I call her a dear friend and she considers me a dear friend.

Finding hope in young people

01:32:44:19

JOHN LEWIS:

I find hope today among our young people, among our children, among women. I think there's something brewing in America that's going to bring people closer and closer together. We need leadership now, strong leadership, to speak up, to speak out, to lift us, transport us, to be guided by better angels. We can do it. We must do it. We cannot afford to go back. We have to go forward as one people, one family, one house. I believe in it. I believe we can do it. We need strong leaders, the children, the women, and hopefully some of the men will help us get there.

The struggle starts within

01:33:53:22

JOHN LEWIS:

Well, I really mean that within all of us, within all of us there is the spark of the divine that help us, move us, tell us when to speak up or speak out, or when to get in what I call good trouble, necessary trouble. This force is part of our DNA. Maybe it's planted by God Almighty and we have to use it for good, to be the best we can be.

JOHN LEWIS INTERVIEW

OBAMA: IN PURSUIT OF A MORE PERFECT UNION

KUNHARDT FILM FOUNDATION

John Lewis

US Representative, Georgia

October 04, 2018

Interviewed by Teddy Kunhardt

Total Running Time: 22 minutes and 19 seconds

START TC: 01:00:00:00

CREW:

John Lewis interview take one, marker.

ON-SCREEN TEXT:

John Lewis

US Representative, Georgia

The first Black US president

01:00:13:23

JOHN LEWIS:

I never thought that I would live to see a black man or a black woman as President of the United States of America. Growing up the way I grew up in rural Alabama, 50 miles from Montgomery, was very hard and very difficult for people of color to even register to vote. My own mother, my own father, my own grandparents didn’t become registered voters until after the Voting Rights Act was passed and signed into law on August 6th, 1965. People had to stand in unmovable lines, people were asked to count the number of bubbles in a bar of soap, the number of jelly beans in a jar; and to live to see Barack Obama become President of the United States of America was almost too much. As a matter of fact, when he was declared the winner of the election, I was speaking in Ebenezer Baptist church, Dr. King’s old church, not the same building, and I jumped up so high I didn’t think my feet were gonna touch the floor, and I started crying. Someone asked me, “Why are you crying so much?” I said, “It’s more than tears of happy and joy, I’m crying for those people who didn’t live to see a person of color elected president.”

01:01:51:12

And I remember some reporters asking me over and over again “why, why, what are you going to do during inauguration?” I said, “if I have any tears left, I’m gonna cry some more.” And that’s exactly what I did. The election of Barack Obama gave us all hope, a greater sense of hope that said Barack Obama can do it, maybe other men and women of color can follow.

The lasting effect of Obama’s presidency

01:02:27:18

JOHN LEWIS:

Barack Obama injected something very meaningful into the very veins of America. It inspired Americans to be willing to go all the way to change things. Not to be shy but to be brave, courageous, and just go for it.

Meeting Obama

01:03:00:12

JOHN LEWIS:

President Obama said to me on more than one occasion that he met me and I don’t quite remember. He was a law student at Harvard, that I came to speak and talk about the civil rights movement, and he recalled meeting me there. But I got to know him fairly well when I came to congress. I invited him to come to Atlanta and he was a Senator, Obama. We walked downtown Atlanta from my office for lunch, and along the way, people kept saying, “Mr. Obama, are you gonna run? Are you gonna run?” And he just sort of, “Well maybe, I don’t know.” And we took a seat in a little restaurant and the waiters and waitresses and other people just kept coming up to him, said, “Run Mr. Obama. Run. Run.” And I think he was in a process, it was going through his mind, and he made the decision to run.

Obama vs. Bobby Rush

01:04:29:18

JOHN LEWIS:

I—I knew of it. I’ve heard of Bobby Rush over the years. And when Bobby got elected to Congress, Bobby would tell the story of what happened. Then he became State Senator and then I kept up with him, this young man from Chicago.

Endorsing Obama

01:05:01:02

JOHN LEWIS

I had made a commitment to Hillary, ‘cause I’d known Hillary through her husband, and I endorsed her, and then I switched to Obama. It was tough, it was very—it was tough. ‘Cause I supported President Clinton and I got to know Hillary and I switched. I called President Clinton and told him. It was one of the tough decisions of my political life. But it’s all—it all worked out. I see them from time to time, I talk to them and we’re still friends.

Obama’s “A More Perfect Union” speech

01:05:40:07

JOHN LEWIS:

I remember the speech very, very well. He spoke from the depths of his soul out of his heart. He put it all on the table. He knew what to say, he knew how to say it, and he won the hearts and souls of many, many, many, many people because of that speech.

Obama for the Civil Rights Movement

01:06:07:23

JOHN LEWIS:

Oh, I think the great majority of people who had been involved in the American civil rights movement were very, very pleased with his leadership, his commitment, his sense of dedication. He came across as a very brave and courageous guy to get out there and just go, “I’m running.” And he ran. And he succeeded.

Obama and Brown Chapel

01:06:43:08

JOHN LEWIS:

I wanted him to come and walk across the bridge. I thought it was important. Other people had gone and walked across that bridge. And he was there, Hillary was there, and I think President Clinton came. But it was—it was a coming together in a very strange way. I wanted President Obama, before he became President, to see and walk that path that other people have walked, to come and sit in that church and feel the spirit of what happened in Selma. To be there with the local indigenous people, and I think they have changed him and inspired him. When the President even before he became President, but as a candidate, he represented something new. He represented a great sense of hope and optimism. He was young, articulate, and daring, just daring. He said I’m gonna do it, and he did it. He succeeded. He was able to build a mighty interracial, bi-racial coalition.

2008 presidential election

01:08:06:18

JOHN LEWIS:

The night that President Barack Obama won, I was standing in the pulpit of Ebenezer Baptist Church speaking in downtown Atlanta, the church that Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and his father had been the co-pastor. And when he was declared the winner, I just started crying. I jumped up like I had been touched by the spirit, maybe the Holy Spirit or maybe the spirit of Dr. King, and I just cried. The day—the day when he was inaugurated, I walked up to him and asked him to sign something. He wrote on this piece of paper, “It’s all because of you John.” I said, “Why thank you, Mr. President.” He gave me a hug. I hugged him and we both teared up. Then the second inauguration, he walked up to me and said, “It’s still because of you, John.” That touched me deeply. So he remembered exactly what he had said four years earlier. That’s very kind of him. Bryan is like Obama; they’re both one of a kind, true brilliant young men, young lawyers that are still making a contribution.

Obama’s presidency and race

01:09:51:19

JOHN LEWIS:

I think the election of President Barack Obama forced all of us, but maybe the majority of Americans, to come to terms with the issue of race. That it’s something that we cannot sweep under the rug or in some dark corner and forget about it. Even before the election, when he spoke in Boston, he talked about there’s not a black America, a white America, there’s America. He was picking up where Dr. King left off: that we’re one people, we’re one family, and we must learn to live together as brothers and sisters, if not we will perish as fools. Obama believed in that. He believed in the goodness of humankind. He had been reading and studying the civil rights movement, reading the literature of Dr. King and others. I believe he became deeply infused with the philosophy and the teachings of Gandhi and others.

Obama’s administration

01:11:08:14

JOHN LEWIS:

President Obama being a person of color had to walk a very fine line. He could not shake things up too much, he couldn’t rock the boat. But he played his role and I think he played it well. He surrounded himself by some very smart, capable individuals. Had Eric Holder as attorney general, but many other people, Black and white, Asian American in his administration. But if he had been maybe someone else, a person of another color, maybe it wouldn’t have been so hard and so difficult. You know, a decision was made even before the inauguration by some members of the Republican Party. They met at the evening and said, we will not allow him to succeed. It was a systematic, deliberate effort to do whatever they thought they could do and get away with, not to allow the President of the United States to succeed.

Resistance against Obama

01:12:41:20

JOHN LEWIS:

There were certain forces working against President Barack Obama and people took advantage of it. If he got out of line or tried to be daring and bold on certain issues, there was members of congress, there were some very powerful individuals who said we would not let him succeed. But in spite of all of that, in spite of everything that people tried to do, it was the leadership of President Obama and a few other good men and women, when we were facing the worst economic crisis problem in modern—the history of modern America. They solved it, rescued—they saved America.

Obama’s success during the recession

01:13:36:06

JOHN LEWIS:

He was able to prevail. It was his deep commitment and his sense of determination, his belief in himself, working with people. The goodwill that he could succeed. You’re right, he saved the automobile industry, saved the banks, financial institutions, and got healthcare passed. And people fought it. That was a big, big victory to get healthcare for all Americans.

Voting for Obama

01:14:25:15

JOHN LEWIS:

Well, it reminded me of what happened as we left the capitol building, the democratic members, I will never forget it. It was on the anniversary—one of the anniversaries of the march across the bridge, and it reminded me—and we just started walking, holding hands. And there were people yelling, using the n-word, cursing people, spitting on members, throwing things at members, but we were determined. We walked on the floor, we cast our votes, and we passed the bill. It was a significant breakthrough. Dr. King, like President Obama, believed that healthcare is a right and that all people should have quality healthcare.

Remaining hopeful

01:15:32:22

JOHN LEWIS:

You have to be hopeful. You have to be optimistic. To lose hope is like you don’t exist. It’s like being dead. Hope keeps you alive. You have to—I said to young people during the 60’s and I say to my colleagues today, continue to pick ‘em up and put ‘em down and to never give up, never give in, never lose that sense of hope. You have to believe somehow and someway you continue to work every single day, every hour. It’s all gonna work out. You have to take a long hard look. There may be some setbacks, some disappointments, but in the final analysis, we will get there; and I believe that today, we will get there.

Charleston Church shooting

01:16:29:03

JOHN LEWIS:

I remember that day very well. As a matter of fact, several of us members of congress were asked to ride on the plane with him. It was an unbelievable feeling, you could see it on the face of President Barack Obama that he knew that he was on a mission: Get all Americans to believe that we have to do our best to create a sense of community and a sense of family, and the church was packed. There was an unbelievable, unbelievable sea of humanity. Black people, white people, young, old, elected officials, non-elected officials, just people. And he delivered a very moving speech and at the end of his speech—it was a mini sermon really, he started singing Amazing Grace. And something just came over me, and I think it came over all of the people in that church. And maybe over people listening on the radio or watching on television. It was one of these unbelievable moments probably in the life of so many of us. But for the President of the United States of America just sort of take charge and started singing Amazing Grace. Only Barack Obama could do it.

Obama’s movement surviving

01:18:25:18

JOHN LEWIS:

He cannot undo the sense of being able to forgive and to move on that Obama instilled in the American people. He cannot undo that. In spite of everything that Mr. Trump said about President Obama and is still talking about the last President, the last administration, President Obama had been so cool and so calm and so much of a man, who has taken it with a great deal of dignity and pride in his accomplishments.

Charlottesville

01:19:20:19

JOHN LEWIS:

Charlottesville made me very sad. When I saw what was happening on television, I cried. I thought we had come so far and was much farther along than what we witnessed. I think the present person in the White House today, through his action and words, helped create the climate and environment of what happened. And then when he had the gall to say there’s some good people on both sides. President Kennedy, President Clinton, President Johnson, President Obama would never ever say anything like that. It made people feel comfortable and feel at home with racism. When you see something that is not right, not fair, not just, something that is evil, you have to speak to it.

Martin Luther King Jr. was an inspiration to Obama

01:20:26:05

JOHN LEWIS:

It was good to see, it was good to hear President Obama using not just the words of Martin Luther King Jr., but to talk about, to quote Dr. King and in a sense become the embodiment of Martin Luther King Jr.. It’s good to be with him on the King celebration day. This past King celebration, he invited me and about six young African Americans in middle school just to talk with him, and it was like a father talking to his young sons, and we did it for two hours. I think the teaching and the life of Dr. King influenced him a great deal.

Younger generations for equality

01:21:31:20

JOHN LEWIS:

Well, I feel good to see young people all over America and around the world are studying and learning of what we tried to do during the 60’s. Hopefully we will be leaving America and the world community better off. Each generation must play a role, must do what we can to inspire another generation to stand out, to speak up, to speak out and try to save this little piece of real estate we call earth. Leave it a little cleaner, a little greener, and a little more peaceful.

END TC: 01:22:19:18

JOHN LEWIS INTERVIEW

INTERVIEW ARCHIVE

LIFE STORIES

John Lewis, Politician & Civil Rights Activist

Interviewed by: Michael Weingrad

August 7, 2003

Total Running Time: 24 minutes and 56 seconds

START TC: 00:00:00